Talk:Theories

Cultural reference

Perhaps the story of Japanese comedian "Nasubi" (Tomoaki Hamatsu) served as a point of inspiration for Kikiyama? Nasubi was locked in an apartment for over a year in 1998, after unkowningly becoming involved in a disturbing reality TV stunt. He had to enter contests to win things for survival, and was allowed nothing else. He would only be released once he'd won one million Yen worth of prizes.

There are a number of similarities: He won a TV, but had no antennae or cable (Madotsuki's TV has no reception). He had only magazines for entertainment initially (Madotsuki has a bookshelf full of presumably books/magazines). He later won a playstation with only one game, similar to Madotsuki's Famicom with only one game. This could be why her Famicom game is named Nasu and has the eggplant theme - his nickname also means "eggplant", which he was given due to his unusually long face. He kept a diary while being locked in the room. It later became a best-selling book. The diary concept is obviously central to Yume Nikki.

It could be that Madotsuki has been locked in her room for months, or even years, in a bizarre social/psycological experiment such as Nasubi, and has been driven mad by the experience, or it could simply be that the concept inspired Kikiyama and he added some small details to Yume Nikki in tribute.

The original English article about Nasubi's experience has been since removed, but can still be accessed via the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine: Archived Nasubi article Link

174.31.168.212 19:05, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

• Huh. I'd never heard of that guy before. As a theory, it certainly bears remarkable similarities to the game. That's quite interesting actually.// TenhGrey (talk) 21:21, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
  • I thought so, too. I was surprised when I first learned about Nasubi (quite randomly) as the similarities jumped out at me. After reading theories/posts about YN ad nauseum, I was surprised that no one else seems to have heard of him since it sounds like it was a pretty big event in Japan at the time. It's one of the only possible real-world connections I've seen to YN, everything else is just random speculation save for the mention of Paracas/Nazca cultural art in the game. It'd be interesting to read Nasubi's diary to see if there's any other connections, but I don't know much Japanese. At any rate, I think it'd be nice to have a mention of the Nasubi story somewhere on the wiki, but I wanted to have some feedback on it before changing any articles. I think the Paracas art style (maybe with some comparison images) should have a mention also. Maybe the top of the Theories page could have a section of cultural similarities/connections, with the fan speculations following? 174.31.168.212 23:18, November 1, 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah, it's definitely worth a mention, and it's a more substantially objective game theory than most. I've been meaning to refurbish this theories page for a while now, but it's completely overgrown and messy. I'll probably get around to it eventually, sometime after I sort out the list of characters page (I'm working on it, slowly)
      I remember writing a whole section on the Mesoamerican-style art in the game on the Aztec Rave Monkey article - Take a look at that. I know it's probably not specifically Aztec art, but that's just the name most people associate with the whole Pre-European Americas culture as a general term. I'm no expert.
      But yeah. However you want to change this article, feel free. You can only make it better.// TenhGrey (talk) 03:59, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Already taken care of

This page doesn't need to be. Most theories are already covered on the individual character pages. Anything concerning Madotsuki's real life is usually covered in her article. This is just another bulky summarisation page, and looks like it was written with no regard to professionalism on top of it. 74.194.224.252 17:51, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

NO U

There are alot of theories that arent categorized that should be on Theories. You don't see theories for Shitai on the wiki, yeah?

Edit: Looking over my article, I see what you mean by "no professionalism". I spend a lot of time on ED more than any other wiki, and it kinda traumatized me.

I'll edit it if anyone has a problem with it. I still stand by my opinion though, that there should be a theories page that tends to almost every character.

Do it. Do everything to make this page more professional and less like it was written by a pre-pubescent 4channer. You also need to link character theories to their respective character pages. 74.194.224.252 10:16, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Spoilers

My dislike of fan "theories" aside, this page spoils the ending. Why does everyone insist on spoiling things Not all of us come here having played all the way through...

I mean, I know it should be expected, but I didn't even know it was possible to "finish" this game.. The way you guys write everything, the way the game involves exploration, this all lead me to believe that the game had no ending and that there was no clear evidence that you obtained all the effects.

There should be a spoiler note or something.. It isn't just this page. A lot of the pages here describe exactly how to get to something, exactly what the thing does and exactly what all the secrets of the thing are right inside of the header. I don't think everyone comes here for the purpose of reminiscing about a game they already played, and because of the nature of this game giving people exact instructions to finding something ruins the purpose and could be considered cheating.

EDIT: Okay, I just realized this was really dumb idea and I still kinda feel tempted to believe this way, but this was just a stupid comment and I no longer support it.. In any case, the way in which I still believe I would like to see it done requires a great deal of explanation on my behalf and is probably only something peculiar to my own overly-specific anti-spoiler/spoiler needs which really probably have more to do with how much I suck at this game. That being said, feel free to discuss it regardless.. Just don't involve me in it directly.. Pretend it was like written by some person that used to have my username or.. or something....Kazekra 03:09, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

• Well, I agree that some pages need spoiler tags (especially those that refer to the ending), but with this being a wiki and all we should try to include as much information as possible. It's not very informative as a comprehensive index of Yume Nikki if things are intentionally left out or put vaguely. TenhGrey 19:24, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
• I think a warn about spoilers is really needed. In the top of the page, like on Wikipedia and other Wikis, something like "This article contains spoilers about the ending of the game. Continue to read at your own risk.", because I didn't know how Yume Nikki ended before reading this page and it spoiled me the ending. I regret nothing, but other people could. Sorry for my mistakes, english is not my mother language ^^" NingyoHimeDoll 17:31, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
  • OK. There's a big red spoiler warning after the introduction now. (I'm not sure why I didn't put it there before actually)//TenhGrey 22:43, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

WMG

Should we include TVTropes page for WMG? The WMG part is explicitly for nonsensical theories combined with lame jokes and memes. Although they do have more fleshed out versions of the ones here, they also have ones that make little sense. ObliterationoftheSelf 23:01, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

One theory

perhaps the piano's teacher was the husband of the woman with the bloody bloated stomach and the girl in the cave and his sister were his daughters. They died in the accident and the husband in train accident.Sorry for my bad inglish

Yes, the raped Madotsuki reminds me of something, The flying severed woman head and the eyeball creatures.76.116.252.63 21:11, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

Madotsuki is a Solipsist:

I hardly ever edit wiki pages, so forgive me if this is sloppy, but I've got a theory I literally just thought of a couple of minutes ago.

Madotsuki is a Solipsist:

Within the entirety of the game, Madotsuki encounters a massive amount of strange creatures inside of her dream world. However, in the real world nor that of dreams, we never see anyone other than Madotsuki that we could effectively call...human. She is simply stuck within her apartment, refusing or unable to leave it and left with little do aside from search her dream world for the Effects of which she does not even know the purpose of until the very end. At another angle, the only consciousness in existence decides in its heightened state of enlightenment that it wishes to create a world where its less enlightened self must conquer a set of fears and go against odds in order to escape a seemingly hopeless reality she has been put into. The exact reasoning of the enlightened consciousness cannot be known, as Madotsuki is the less enlightened state of this consciousness that has done this for its own purposes, whether it be for entertainment, experiencing a specific scenario, or otherwise. The enlightened consciousness leaves a very vague set of instructions for Madotsuki and lets her do as she wishes within the confines of those rules, perhaps even as a test of her reasoning and capacity for rationality in a surreal setting. As Madotsuki collects the Effects, each could represent a fragment of her Enlightenment, which, once again, have been spread about for reasons unknown to even Madotsuki, and once she collects all of the Effects, she achieves true Enlightenment once again, and goes back into her state of Oneness by taking her leap of faith from the balcony, the barrier keeping her from leaving until she had attained Oneness from new experiences. There would be logical loopholes within this setting that a less enlightened Madotsuki could use to her advantage such as simply being able to leave, entering a place which was never created by the consciousness, so it instead made her believe that she would never, for any reason, want to leave her apartment. All of these theories of Rape, Transexuality, Vehicle Accidents, literally every theory could be true to the point of this consciousness creating memories for Madotsuki so she would have a form of drive to move onward, to explore her dreams, even if she had no idea what she was doing or why she was doing it. 

This is extremely far-fetched, but I just thought about it and didn't try to refine any of my thoughts. Analyze, correct, re-format, delete, do what you will with this huge block of text. I just had to do something with this theory. I hope at least someone will at the very least understand what I'm trying to convey and at least entertain the thought for a moment. Thank you.

208.126.45.208 06:37, November 17, 2013 (UTC)ChaosLordZalgo (not a member of this wiki...YET)

A connection between madotsuki's murderous intent and closets

I think that the idea that Madotsuki has had a violent or murderous past can be linked with the closets in the game. I think it's possible that in the past, madotsuki had harmed someone with the knife, and afterwards felt guilty and tried to hide in a closet. An obvious example would be the madotsuki you can see hiding in a closet on the checkered tile path, but this could be linked with the event of stabbing the toriningen in the numbers world. We could see it almost like a re-enactment of the memory. She stabs the torningen which represents the person she stabbed in real life, and then you can enter a closet in the same room and be teleported into mini hell, which could represent two things. It could either represent her guilt, along with the ghost of herself, or it could represent the feeling that she's trapped in the closet, afraid to come out and face her actions.

We could go even deeper, as in the reason why kamakurako's sprite is extremely similar to that of closet madotsuki, but I have no idea where to start. What do you guys think?

68.189.105.207 07:25, July 8, 2014 (UTC)hp

The Yuki-Onna, and the fact that Madotsuki refers to Uboa as "Mom" in the manga.

You know, that first theory on the page? I was surprised to not see anything about the Yuki-Onna. Yuki-Onna are said to do many things in Japanese folklore, but the thing I know then for is... well, raping travelers. Wikipedia: "She occasionally takes on a succubus-like manner, preying on weak-willed men to drain or freeze them through sex or a kiss."

Chapter 5, Page 5 of the Yume Nikki manga, Madotsuki refers to Uboa/Poniko as "Mom" at the bottom of the page. Uboa seems to have a ponytail, like Poniko. Uboa took Madotsuki's umbrella and started hitting her with it. The fact that Madotsuki used "Mom" could resemble that Madotsuki's mother abused her, and also due to Uboa taking the effects from Madotsuki could mean that Madotsuki's mom also took her belongings.

In the game, when the Uboa event is triggered, you cannot turn the light back on or leave the room. It could be possible Madotsuki was told to stay in her room by her mother. And hey, maybe Madotsuki doesn't like to go to sleep with the light off, but is forced to. Or maybe she just broke the light switch.

Madotsuki could also have longed for a sibling..?

Potarukaabi (talk) 16:38, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

"Aztec imagery"

Isn't it actually Paraca imagery? I mean, compare the two and you will see a very obvious link between them.

Not very well versed in the subject. Can you supply us with more information how it is NOT aztec but instead that? LeahCCinnamon ✿ Talk 16:32, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Rape theory should be included here.

The theory of rape is not fetishistic. I think that many would agree with me in saying that much of the symbolism in this game goes much further than just bodily imagery. Sure, that's a more general way of putting it, and perhaps it could mean something else, but I don't think a theories page should include simply visual themes. I think there's a lot of weight to the rape related theory. Just because it deals with extremely explicit topics doesn't mean it's fetishistic. At least acknowledge it as a theory here.

Response

Regarding that theory, I feel like mentioning it in a broader way of referring to body imagery is much better. Sure, it's a valid theory, but other people point at the same imagery and say it means Madotsuki is trans, and other again say it means that Madotsuki had a miscarriage, and and and. You see where I'm going with this? People add more and more convoluted theories that end up in ridiculous fanfic-like scenarios. Also, the way the theory you mentioned was described before was definitely by people into the idea, as they and others started mentioning it on every page they could squeeze it into. And I do not want any of that near this wiki. I hope that solves your request.

LeahCCinnamon ✿ Talk 21:51, October 30, 2017 (UTC)

Feel free to add stuff!

This page has a lot of interesting things in of itself. Maybe I'll make a new section for that first one, and put possible inspiration from real life in here somewhere. I'm just trying to think of how I would put other theories in here, more specific ones. If anyone has anything to add to the page, go right ahead. I'd love to hear what you all think. If it's something more pertaining to one character, rather than the game as a whole, make an interpretation section on that page for it. Don't be afraid to add what you think! GreenToxic ★ Talk 16:04, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

incorporating trans theory into this article

i feel like this theory gets mis-respresented a lot by people just saying 'its people thinking Madotsuki is trans because she can go into both bathrooms' but it actually has a good bit more substance, mainly being that Madotsuki can be found in a closet twice - once being in checkered tile path and the other the mini hell event. also the effects taking the form of eggs is relevant, as trans people often use 'egg' as slang for the self before realizing they are trans. several effects could also be seen as representative of dysphoria about hair and body type, and the distorted white desert creatures/sewer drawings could be interpreted as symbolic for dysphoria - they look as though they do not fit in their bodies or are trying to escape their bodies. i feel that it at least merits a passing mention, its certainly not more of a stretch than that mars abortion theory.

since this article seems to be noting major themes in the game that can lead to different interpretations, a 'themes of identity' section might fit, or it could go under body themes -ArchaicEquilibrium (2/25/2021)

Creating another section for Themes of Identity sounds like a great idea! I will see what I can do with making it soon, although if you feel like you can then go ahead and I will eventually help edit it. GreenToxic ★ Talk 15:39, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I knew someone was going to add transgender to this. It seems more like someone self-inserting rather than an actual theory on the character and game itself.

Eh, well who knows? You can see a lot of interpretations into the game. But I guess I can kinda see where you're coming from too. GreenToxic ★ Talk 06:47, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

The Identity section

"In the Closet" is both a term used just for hiding sexual preference, not transgender identity (which is "Hatching from the egg"), and is also not a idiom in Japanese. Considering that removing that "clue" leaves you with just "You can enter the boys bathroom" and "You die at the end", its pretty obviously a massive stretch